Meeting Organizational Resistance with Curiosity with Dallase Scott
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In This Episode
In nonprofit storytelling, there’s often a disconnect between the trauma-informed and ethical practices we aspire to and the systems we’re working within. Many of us feel the urgency to do less harm and tell stories with greater care, but when trauma-informed storytelling meets organizational resistance, it can be hard to know where to begin.
Today’s guest, Dallase Scott, brings clarity and encouragement to that exact moment.
Dallase is the founder of Trust, a consulting firm that helps organizations navigate change with empathy, transparency, and strategy. She has supported more than 40 institutions, including Yale, Columbia, and Brown, along with collective impact initiatives like the Boston Green Ribbon Commission. In this conversation, we explore how nonprofit leadership can become more open to trauma-informed storytelling practices, how storytellers can influence from within, and what it takes to make trauma-informed storytelling part of your organizational culture.
About Dallase Scott
As founder of Trust, Dallase Scott brings a wealth of expertise and training in strategy, organizational design, change management, and design thinking that is unique in the field of sustainability consultants. Her balance of empathy, transparency, and structured engagement makes her a sought-after facilitator who provides customized support to guide stakeholders through an engagement and decision-making process that meets the needs and long-term vision of the institution. Clients value her personalized facilitation and engagement processes, carefully designed to strengthen the talent and capabilities which already exist in client organizations.
Over the past 15 years, Dallase has engaged faculty, students, staff, and senior administrators at over 40 higher education institutions, including Brown University, Tufts University, Yale University, University of Florida, Dartmouth College, Columbia University, and Princeton University. She has also supported many cohorts and alliances looking to use their collective impact to tackle larger, complex projects that overcome systemic barriers, such as the Boston Green Ribbon Commission, North Texas Food Policy Alliance, and the Ivy+ Sustainability Consortium, among others.
Connect with Dallase Scott
Trust | Growing Trust Series | Instagram
Transcripts
Maria Bryan:
Welcome to the When Bearing Witness podcast. This podcast is an invitation to explore trauma-informed storytelling — a safe and healthy process of gathering and telling painful stories. It's hosted by me, Maria Bryan, a career storyteller. I have long believed that storytellers play a crucial role in making the world a better place.
For a brief moment, I was introduced to the concept of trauma-informed storytelling, and it changed my life. Join my conversations with trauma-informed experts and social good storytellers as we help shape the intersection of trauma-informed care and the storytelling process. Stories are sacred, and we can create safe spaces to tell and share them.
We have Dallase Scott with us today, founder of Trust, and an expert in organizational design and change management. I love the name of her organization because it ties so well into what we're going to be talking about today.
Dallase has worked with 40 higher education institutions — some of them you might recognize, including Brown, Tufts, Yale, Columbia, and Princeton — and major collective impact initiatives like the Boston Green Ribbon Commission.
We're going to explore how trauma-informed storytelling can take root in your organization when leadership or your teams might not fully understand it yet, and how we as storytellers can influence change from within.
Dallase, I'm so thrilled to have you on. We've talked before, and I'm just so excited for this conversation. Welcome to the show.
Dallase Scott:
Thank you for having me, Maria. I'm very excited to be here. This is a wonderful topic, and I'm glad to be on this podcast with you.
Maria Bryan:
Let's talk about trust, and I want to know about your founding story. What inspired you to found Trust?
Dallase Scott:
You know, it's interesting — the seed for starting Trust actually came through an exercise I did with my team at my old organization. It was sort of this team-building, "feel free to share your desires outside of our work" kind of thing.
Sometimes we’re afraid to share that, because it seems like we're being unloyal to our current role. But I wanted to know where they wanted to be in 10 years so I could help them, during their time with me, develop that skill set.
Like any training I do, I participate too. So I had to think about where I wanted to be. And in this small print, I wrote: "Start my own business?" Then you say it out loud and you get, like, sweaty armpits — but that was actually the start.
I realized sustainability was a passion of mine. I discovered its importance when I was an undergrad. I was a psychology major, so I kind of felt like, did I get the wrong degree? Should I have gone into environmental science or something? But it turns out, it's a human behavior problem that we’re facing. So I was in the right field.
I ended up at an organization that focused on sustainability — energy efficiency work for colleges and universities. They were very technically focused, which is important. I was hired to think about the change management or student side of the equation.
As I leaned into that more and more, I realized that even with technical solutions, we kept having human behavioral conflict and challenges.
After 10 years at that organization, I realized this is what I wanted to really wrap my head around. I think they saw me as sort of a sidecar to what they do, and I thought, no — the people equation needs to be more central.
I'm looking at organizations that aren't able to scale their work, and it almost always has to do with team dynamics, not the technical capacity. They're smart, they’re dynamic — they just haven't found a way to communicate and build trust.
Maria Bryan:
That really hits me as someone who worked in-house for so long at very, very large organizations, starting new things. I mean, I was in this huge organization that had no digital marketing presence. They only fundraised with checks.
They didn’t have any way to donate online. They didn’t have two emails to rub together. They had no social media. Now granted, this was back when that was still kind of new.
But that was my first job — trying to get this huge organization to trust me enough to open up a Mailchimp and a Facebook account. So anyway, I so feel this.
And that feels so almost benign compared to my work now, which is all about trauma-informed storytelling.
You know, folks go through the When Bearing Witness program, and they are just on fire. They are on board. Because they are now so concerned with the possible harm they could do.
It surprises them — and it surprised me — that the actual learning was the easy part.
Dallase Scott:
Yeah.
Maria Bryan:
Trying to break through, to lead up with this, to get leadership on board — that’s the bigger challenge, really.
Which is why I wanted to have this conversation with you. It's been heavy on my heart.
So I want to start with this. So much of what you do has to do with difficult conversations — how to prep for them, and what to do when they go awry.
So, well-intended — I’ll call them change agents — want to introduce new concepts to their teams and their leadership. We’re talking up, down, all around.
What are mistakes you’re seeing these folks make when trying to have these hard conversations?
Dallase Scott:
I'm so glad you said this, because it is heart-crushing when someone gets new information, thinks “this is going to be really valuable,” and it’s dismissed.
Maybe they’re even given some busy work to keep them occupied, but there’s zero intention for that work to actually lead anywhere.
Maria Bryan:
Yes.
Dallase Scott:
Right?
One thing I tell people is, when you get new information — especially when it resonates deeply — it’s because it’s hitting something in you that feels seen.
So the impulse is to jump right into “we need to implement this everywhere.”
But there’s a lot of personal work that needs to be done before you can bring it to your organization.
I say that because it’s going to require difficult conversations. It might hit some really vulnerable places in you.
You’re not just presenting a PowerPoint deck. You’re saying, “This is a value set I want to bring.”
And it matters to you because you’ve experienced parts of it. That is very vulnerable.
If we just jump into that dialogue, there’s so much uncertainty. People have been taught not to go there.
So not only are you putting yourself out there — you're also asking others to be vulnerable by changing how the organization thinks.
I don’t think we always recognize that.
When you’re asking your boss or your organization to lean into trauma-informed storytelling, you're asking them to tap into a part of themselves they may not want to access.
It took me doing my own work to realize that’s a big ask. Especially if there isn’t already trust or safety in place.
Maria Bryan:
There is so much guilt and shame wrapped up in moving forward with trauma-informed practices, because you have to face the harm you’ve done.
Why change something if it's not broken, right?
So what you're really saying is, “We need to address all the harm we've done.”
That's a big conversation to have with leadership.
Dallase Scott:
It is. And I don’t think people in this change-agent role aren’t taking it seriously.
But there is a lot behind that request.
Some of my best conversations — the ones that actually led to organizational change — required me to be ready and willing to be vulnerable, but also able to stay grounded while being vulnerable.
Depending on where you’re bringing that conversation, you might be reactivating your own trauma.
Sometimes that causes us to check out. Sometimes we get aggressive. There are a lot of ways we might unintentionally shut the conversation down.
Maria Bryan:
Happy summer, storytellers. Quick update — the summer cohort of the When Bearing Witness Trauma-Informed Storytelling certification program is now open.
If you're ready to dive in, there is an early bird special running now through July 6, 2025.
Head to mariabryan.com and use code EARLYBIRD, all one word, for $100 off.
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Dallase Scott:
Where I was able to get the most growth, within my team and in facilitating client teams, was by expressing myself first.
I would lead and say, "I'm going to be the first to share why this is important, how it connects to experiences in my past, and why it matters to me that you just hear me out."
That approach has gone a lot further, but I had to do a lot of work to be grounded in that conversation.
Maria Bryan:
I want to underline something here. I'm having a lot of "aha" moments as we're talking.
This ties back to what you shared earlier about the foundation of your organization.
Sometimes we think the technical or resource-heavy stuff has to go first, but really it's about interpersonal relationships and, in our case, individual trauma.
So when folks go through my program or listen to the podcast, they go on this very personal, emotional journey first. Then they’re ready to get tactical and make changes.
And when they go to their leader, they start with the technical: “Here are all the processes we need to change.”
But their leadership hasn’t gone through the emotional or personal journey yet.
And if you’re talking about trauma, you’re bringing up individual trauma.
It’s inevitable. No one goes through my program without reckoning with their own story.
Dallase Scott:
Yeah.
Maria Bryan:
So maybe you can speak to that. Because I know you really center empathy, trust, and transparency.
How might someone lead organizational change by first leaning into emotive empathy before suggesting technical or procedural changes?
Dallase Scott:
There’s a lot we can do. I see this in both my personal relationships and my work relationships.
People respond much more to others who model the change.
I really liked how in your workshop, you talked about the importance of asking for feedback.
So if there was unintentional harm done, people have space to bring it up.
That’s huge. Because it's a big emotional lift to name something that hurt you, especially if no one asked.
But if someone says, “Hey, I want to create space for feedback, and I’m grounded enough to receive it,” that changes everything.
Sometimes people want big, sweeping change, but they’re not ready to do it themselves.
They're not ready to say, “I’m going to start by asking all of you for feedback.”
They’re not prepared to say, “Here are the things I think I’m doing well, and here are some areas where I can improve. I’d love your input too.”
When you do that, people think, “Oh, she sees her blind spots. Maybe it’s safer to be honest with her than I thought.”
Even something as small as someone saying, “Hey, it would help if you replied to my emails, even with a quick thumbs up,” and then actually doing it — that models responsiveness. It helps people feel seen.
So you’re showing, not telling.
You don’t always need sweeping changes across an entire organization.
You can start by changing how you show up, how you respond, how you lead your small team or even an intern.
That alone can become a pilot model of trust, feedback, and safety.
In my old organization, other teams would kind of look over the fence and say, “What are you doing over there? You all seem like you trust each other.”
Part of the story behind Trust is that I had this deeply fulfilling relationship with my staff.
A few other people even asked to join our team. But I had a much harder time creating that same culture with the senior leaders — my peer group.
Looking back, there were a lot of unseen dynamics, a lot of hurt that came up in those interactions.
And because of how I was raised — constantly needing to prove myself, performing to be seen — I was already familiar with that trauma space.
So I kept showing up, even when I wasn’t validated.
But with my team, it was healthy. It was dynamic.
Now, I’ve been gone from that organization for four, almost five years.
I recently caught up with someone who stayed after I left during COVID.
She told me they have new leadership now, and she said, “Your culture stayed. The ghost of Dallase — that trust-building, feedback culture — it’s still here.”
No one kept the styles of the other leaders who left, but the way we worked together remained.
And the people who were on my team? They moved into leadership, and now that’s how they’re choosing to lead.
So even though it was hard and often felt like I was swimming upstream, it actually laid the groundwork for lasting change.
Maria Bryan:
My heart is singing.
That’s something I often tell people — I can’t promise that you’ll change your leadership, but what I hope is that you become the leadership.
You’re such a beautiful case study of that happening.
You developed this team and this wonderful dynamic, and although it never quite worked with your peers, your team rose into leadership.
Something else you said really struck me — when you said, “Oh yeah, my own trauma came into this because of how I grew up.”
For those listening, you're probably familiar with trauma responses: fight, flight, fawn, or freeze.
I want to explore what happens when you try to have these conversations and meet resistance.
Because one of those four responses is probably going to show up in you.
There’s the fawn response — where you keep trying to prove yourself and please others, even if it’s not effective.
There’s the fight response — where people get angry. And those folks are rarely received well by leadership, even though that response is totally valid.
There’s the freeze response — paralysis, like a deer in headlights. You have the hard conversation and then... nothing. You just feel stuck.
And then there’s flight — where people just leave.
That’s what happened to me. I didn’t fawn, I didn’t fight, I didn’t freeze. I got out.
That was my response — I just left and started my own consultancy.
But that’s my fear. That these storytellers, who have such big hearts and want to do good, will leave the sector entirely.
Because not every storyteller has this trauma-informed background — and I want them to stay.
I want them in the work as long as possible.
So I wanted to name those reactions for anyone listening who might resonate.
Resistance is real.
Let’s say someone tries to model the values. Like what happened with your peers. And they still meet resistance.
What can we do when that happens?
Are there strategies to mitigate it? Or ways to build resilience and keep going when we’re not breaking through?
Dallase Scott:
First, I think what you said is so important — the flight response can actually be a healthy one.
I always tell people who feel totally stuck: “Have you considered leaving?”
It’s always an option. It may not be your first option, but it’s on the table.
There’s value in staying and building resilience in these spaces.
When I joined my previous organization, it was right out of grad school. I had loans to pay, and I was learning a lot.
I felt like, “This is amazing. I love this.”
So even when I encountered conflict, I’d think, “Ooh, what can I learn from this?”
That curiosity carried me really far.
In the trainings I lead — on facilitation or having hard conversations in organizations — I always say that curiosity is your biggest strength.
Put on the lens of, “Why did they respond that way? That’s interesting.”
Then reflect. “Did I present that well? I think I did. So I wonder how it landed.”
In the first couple of months at my old job, a VP pulled me aside and said, “Dallase, this could be a job or a career. You’re going to need to decide.”
And this was because I left work at 3:30 p.m.
Mind you, I got there at 7:00 in the morning.
So I just looked at him and asked, “Am I not meeting your expectations?”
He said, “No, you are.”
I said, “Am I missing deadlines?”
“No.”
“So this is about me not sitting at my desk late in the day?”
He said, “Well, most of us stay later.”
And I said, “I do my best work in the morning, and I’m getting everything done — plus more.”
I didn’t get defensive. I got curious.
And eventually, he said, “You’re doing great.”
That could’ve damaged our relationship, but I think because I responded with curiosity, it actually strengthened it.
So if you’re in a place where you want to create change and meet resistance, bring your curiosity toolkit.
Observe. Ask. Reflect.
That helped me step into change leadership more fully.
I was already good at organizational change, but I had to grow in leading that change through relationships.
What I realized was that I kept running up against other people’s insecurities, vulnerabilities, and rigid ideas about power and leadership.
So I started asking questions about whether the culture they said they wanted was actually being supported in practice.
Once, I told a senior leader that I experienced some of his behavior as sexist, and I had observed similar interactions with others.
He didn’t see himself that way.
But we had a deep conversation, and he was surprised — no one had ever said that to him before.
He was blown away that certain things he said were considered sexist.
But because I approached the conversation with curiosity and the most generous interpretation I could, I think he was able to take in the feedback.
And he got curious too.
Maria Bryan:
In the nonprofit space, we have such a heart for the communities we serve.
We offer so much empathy and compassion outward — but often leave so little for our teams, or for the people we work with.
And that’s not fair.
It’s not fair that you had to have that conversation with that senior leader.
But you did it with so much curiosity, empathy, and compassion.
And honestly, that’s the only way forward.
People shut down so easily.
Dallase Scott:
Yeah.
Maria Bryan:
You’re speaking to something really deep.
You’ve given so many takeaways — and the idea of a “curiosity toolkit” is going to stay with me forever.
If someone’s listening and they’re on this part of their trauma-informed journey — trying to lead up, down, and all around — is there one practice or mindset or mantra that’s helped you stay grounded?
Dallase Scott:
Honestly, grounding myself is everything.
One of the hardest things for me — the biggest emotional trigger — is when I bring something up and it feels like it isn’t valued or even heard.
That’s tough.
When I was putting out my online series, that came up a lot.
And kudos to you, Maria, for doing the same.
One thing that helped was something I heard from an author on a podcast.
She said, “There’s so much freedom in not taking responsibility for whether people like what you do or not.”
That really hit me.
I needed to give myself permission just to put myself out there.
To know that putting something into the world is enough.
And however people respond — that’s theirs.
It doesn’t mean I failed.
You’re being true to what you believe in.
You’re trying different tactics to move toward your larger vision of the kind of organization you want to be part of.
Even if your current space doesn’t receive it — even if it falls on deaf ears — you’re building a skillset.
You’re developing a grounded, practiced presence that will shine in a place that’s actually ready for you.
So if someone’s feeling discouraged, I’d say, as much as you can while honoring your own safety:
Look at this as a learning opportunity.
A place to practice being your full self.
Maria Bryan:
Thank you for your wisdom — and even more so for your vulnerability and generosity in sharing your stories.
How can listeners connect with you, learn more about Trust, or check out your courses?
What are you up to these days?
Dallase Scott:
Thanks for asking.
So, one of the main things I do is consulting — I work with nonprofit, mission-driven organizations that are eager to create change but feeling stuck.
That might be strategic planning work or bringing people together as a team when things feel out of sync.
Because I run a small organization — and I want to keep it that way, so I can be present for my two daughters, my spouse, and my friends — I also created the Growing Trust series.
That’s a self-paced online course that shares tools and skill-building resources for people who want to bring more trust and emotional intelligence into their work.
If you’re the only one in your organization who’s ready, you can sign up solo.
Or, you can go through it as a small group — we offer options for teams of five or 15, so you can treat it like a book club.
There’s a course called Trust You, which is all about leading change in everyday moments — especially in meetings.
You don’t need a big title to make a big difference.
Then there’s another course that focuses more on developing your internal self-reflection and your interpersonal empathy.
That one helps folks build the capacity to give and receive feedback, to engage dynamically, and to help create a safer workplace.
And I really love that your work touches on that too — especially the piece about how to promote safety and repair when a relationship gets off track.
All the details are on my website.
My hope is that people will use it, especially if they want to build a shared vocabulary with others.
It’s a lot easier to have these conversations when your whole team is on the same page — not just you.
Maria Bryan:
I’m actually going through one of those series right now.
And not only is it packed with tools — it also just feels like I’m sitting on the couch with a wise, empathetic friend helping me process something hard.
Like, “You’re right. You’re right.”
I love it.
I highly recommend it, and I’ll include the links in the show notes.
Dallase, thank you so much for being with us today.
Dallase Scott:
Thank you so much for hosting conversations like this.
I really did enjoy myself.